Co to je
Napsal: ned 08. říj 2023 21:12:50
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foreign
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you know the playing field of what we're talking the concepts of what we're talking about
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um but to be clear what we're talking about isn't a concept
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which is in the end the difficulty is which is where the seeking comes from
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so what we're talking about it's very simple um this
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this is it I mean that this is it in every sense of the word
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every sense of that if this is it now
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you could say there's two this is there's a this
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as an object as as the experiencer of the room and the
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room itself so there's me and the experience of
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what's Happening that's that's like one reality it's
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illusory illusory so in a sense it's not even really happening
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and then there's what we're talking about here I guess we're talking about both of those but this is more
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suggesting that this is that which is
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long before so it is a table it is um pants or legs and a floor and a room
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but that is that which can't be known so there isn't nothingness out of which
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this comes there isn't a source of this there isn't somewhere else other than
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this this is that full stop that's the end of it
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now for that first reality of this being an object that is meaningless
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if there's nothing in it for it there's nothing in it there's no hope there's no
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meaning there's no purpose there's no becoming there's no intention
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and all of those things are necessary or feel to be necessary to that first
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reality of this this room as an object this room is an object the individual
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that experience feels like that this room as an object or this as an object
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objectified reality it's becoming so in this meeting it's become whatever
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whatever is being talked about it's going to find what we're suggesting it's
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going to realize something something needs to happen for this to be what the
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suggestion is that this is already never happens didn't happen here it'll
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never happen there it doesn't happen
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because the separation isn't real the experience that this is
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an object of reality isn't real it's only real to that subjective experience
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and that that's the suggestion anyway is an illusion this is the absolute
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this is fulfillment this is unconditional love
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it is that already
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yeah so that's sort of a baseline of Concepts
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and we can talk about that
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I mean I'll say as well the meeting isn't about imparting Concepts or clarifying the
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experience of the individual or becoming anything or getting rid of the separate experience there's absolutely no
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intention here or in the room it's all
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already completely fulfilled as it is without any need to be anything
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else
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and that includes that first reality there's nothing right or wrong with that either this isn't trying to change it
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that's that reality is that which can't be said that fulfillment the absolute as well
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huh yeah all right yeah
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so yesterday he said that when you recognize this
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that you felt no need to tell anybody about it yeah
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so why are you doing this yeah wow it's in the question that I didn't
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recognize this nobody recognizes this it wasn't actually something that
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happens to someone it's the end of something which never happened
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it's the end of the dream that there's that this is an objectified that
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so that's different we're talking to someone talking to
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anyone about it was like that's a whole different thing than what you're doing now
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I'm lost well you said that you had no need to tell
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anyone that things change yeah oh no well it's not that there's no
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need to tell anyone it's that there's nothing to say okay there's just nothing to say about
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it in a sense in a sense you could say words often have intention or speaking
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often has intention to change what is to become something else to inform that of
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something that this has so you would that would be sort of a teaching that this has something that doesn't and it's
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trying to show that that this sees that's not that's just not what this is
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this is just saying how it is already without any intention of having anybody see it or not
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there isn't any reason why that should or shouldn't it makes no difference whatsoever so in everything is that
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already it appears to change but it has no value
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so the experience of separation is exactly the same in that way as there
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being No Illusion of separation
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so why are you telling us that there's nothing to say
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that's pretty much so at the beginning I said there was a reality of of an
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objective background subject objective and I said that was a loser
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and another way you could say that is there is no you there is no line right and it isn't that
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the I becomes a no eye it's just that there never is an eye that's why the end
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of that is the end of something that never happened so there isn't anyone here telling you
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anything and there isn't anyone there asking
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[Music]
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so unless you're actually being physically threatened you don't if you don't feel
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any fear or worry or anything like that it's not really about what emotions arise
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it's that whatever happens doesn't happen for anyone or whatever happens is
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that already but what about the fearfulness that the individual lives in I feel terrified
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sitting here like this somehow threatens me not the message just everything I feel like genuinely feels threatened by
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everything in this Rouge yeah I know that might sound dramatic but that's it does you know
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but all this is saying is that's it as well that's all that's being said
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it's really simple foreign
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[Music]
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but that individual is only real to itself yeah yeah in other words when the
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eye collapses can be the illusion can't be seen the
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illusion cannot be seen well I mean in a in a way so here when it when it when it
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melted it was seen to melt yeah yeah what I'm talking about cannot be seen
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other individuals oh definitely well there aren't any yeah I know oh right okay oh that's what you mean yeah no
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there aren't any it's only real to itself that's right yeah this is the appearance of an individual
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or the implication it feels like an implication like it's implied but it's not there well it's not for the for the individual
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it's the only experience I am everything is real to me right so it's not implied
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it's the experience yeah Jim would you talk about the absolute
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yeah kind of clarify uh because the word absolute has a lot of connotations and
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I'm assuming it's just what is that's yeah absolutely no more than that that's
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right well what is to the individual is the objective with the perception okay a
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now something to be in or not be in whereas what what the suggestion is is
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there isn't anything other than that yeah absolutely
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would you say the perception of the individual is also the absolute as well
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absolutely but but the difficulty is it it then has the
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experience of Separation these variants of the individual is that there's something that needs to happen
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this has intention it has meaning and purpose and it's up to me to fulfill it
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and that's illusory that comes out of the illusory experience that this is real that it's happening to me that I'm
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real separation is a thorn right so when for
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um the phrase when the eye collapses but then it doesn't really collapse now because there really isn't dead that's
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right yeah yeah because what did di be recognizing
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now excuse me what if the eye do you recognizing that collapse I mean it's it becomes like a well there isn't an eye
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right oh that's what you mean yeah exactly okay there's nothing to realize
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right right yeah well it's not a realization
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the end of me isn't a realization or it's difficult to say but the seating of
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this is that isn't a realization it's the end of an experience that hid
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this as that
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is there anything you could say about separation yeah
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what was you like doing really I don't know it's it's it's discontent
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well yeah that's yeah separation is a sense of discontent the sense of
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something needing to happen
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experience no talk about it about what
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is it pretty oh well yeah I mean it's quite I mean I know all about separation
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about the experience of Separation about you know the function of the individual
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um how it what it needs how it's just in a constant wheel of need of looking for better
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experiences how if something good happens it holds on to it you know about just all of that I mean you know we
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could talk for quite a while oh that's the separation that's something of the separation object the
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person that is the separation yeah yeah that's all that's the only
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separation there is not that I did sing onto it felt good it's
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yeah I could see that separation I don't want to lose it that's right yeah
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well the separation of function is is that the function of separation is or
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the individual is seeking
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which includes meaning and purpose intention need
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the sense of volition becoming
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well what about um you know there's a lot of anxiety
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yeah or you know oops excuse me or uh you know like just a lot of people
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around yeah does that go away it's that's not what we're talking about we're not talking about a better
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experience so there's still feelings of well
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there's feelings but they don't happen for anyone but that's not really what we're talking
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about I mean it's an aspect of it what we're saying is that everything that appears is that which is longed for
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already okay
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yeah no it's not it's not it's not helpful no
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yeah people sorry people approach this message in your experience
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you feel better oh it's different there's like I used to say there were two now it
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seems like there's three categories the ones the ones that are looking for something right and they'll get up and scream at
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me and leave um because there's nothing on offered and then there's the ones that are open
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there's a Readiness for something Beyond getting something more for themselves
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um and and then I think the larger category is a mixture of those two the ones that would would really like to get
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something but there's something else that is really happy that nothing is being done there's a hearing of something Beyond getting something
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foreign
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experiences you know I go around and they come and go yeah and then you know I take all the
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different rides in the amusement park whatever it is from my personal thing and there's a sense of that here that
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it's not or when we gather together like this there's a sense of that it's not
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for me yeah it's not another experience in a way yeah something underneath yeah
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yeah and that's for me it's relieved yeah yeah I don't have to find anything in it
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yeah yeah
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um I'm curious what your thoughts are have any sort of potentially adapted to
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life without that book yeah in terms of the relationship between learning and
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that sort of egoic sense of
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it's too much for me I don't I don't know I don't know that there has been much of a difference in that there's a
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relaxation about it all so I guess learning would be easier than that so they wouldn't be the sense of getting it
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right or wrong or that someone was getting it right or wrong and then that mattered so that might be at ease about
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that does that answer your question yeah yeah yeah yes I'm um
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for my own personal experience of how that how the brain sort of you know
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functions doing that you know sort of Fitness produced effect of learning of really
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you know Concepts living it together yeah and uh whether or not that
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gets better or worse yeah yeah yeah I guess for every every body it might be
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different but I imagine the you know the ease about it might make learning easier
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okay is it because there's no motivation for fulfillment in it uh well yeah or the
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need to become yeah yeah the need for it to get it right
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so there's there's two things going on you know this is a story but there's sort of the Natural Way of the body you
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know how it moves how it talks preferences and those sorts of things and the separate experience is an
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imposition on that and so it um it tries to modulate everything control
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everything and um so it would depend upon how influential
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that is on the natural weighing of being the natural way the body is as to what
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would it would be like when that was no longer happening
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and so how was it oh it was amazing it was amazing yeah
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yeah no it's not really worth mentioning
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[Music] the me is looking for something spectacular the me that separate
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experience this isn't a judgment right but it's very special
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and especially itself is the most important of all the specialness around and so it has an idea of what needs to
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happen for um for that for what it thinks this is
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talking about so it has huge expectations for what
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this is talking about and so it's very readily accepts really big buildings and people with funny hats
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and all those things because it feels like that that that that you know jives with this expectation
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where do those expectations come from the censor just said the sense of specialness
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do you think culture though also oh well it can it'll have an effect on
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how that specialness is you know displayed so in India you let your fingernails go
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through your hand and in the west you wear a funny hat and live in a big building
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but then also not necessarily just like the trappings of that position or
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whatever but also the subjective experience like oh I'm gonna be
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extraordinarily calm in all situations oh totally yeah yeah I'm going to have
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psychic power that's right yeah yeah where does that kind of stuff come need
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the need to be special and what about also like the end of suffering as well like complete Edward
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stuff what about it well that's the experience that suffering is personal and that the only way to find relief
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would be for it to end as opposed to as to end there being no one suffering yeah
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everything is personalized and so even what we're talking about is objectified that's exactly how it remains hidden
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because the individual makes an object not not as a choice but as a function it
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is the subject to the object of reality and so as a function it makes an object
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of even what's being said here although what's being said here is the objective reality illusory and it objectifies that
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so would you say that suffering still exists but it just doesn't matter it depends when they Define suffering I
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Define suffering and seeking and so in that way suffering doesn't seem to happen they're seeking ends
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seeking for something different well seeking in this in the way I'm talking about it is
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in the individual it's seeking a better experience so whatever's happening it's it's never there's just not enough this
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isn't enough whatever it is it's just not enough even if it's a good experience there's a need
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to hold on to that experience and consider not enough or should be
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different are those symptoms yeah yeah yeah yeah more
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of us more yeah
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so evident in little kids you know oh yeah because they want one
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thing and the moment they got it it's about five minutes it's fine and then they want the next thing and then the next thing the next thing
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even though there's no one there having an experience or there or there right
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yeah or here yeah yeah is can you give Sora some examples
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from your apparent life of like let's say conflict comes into your experience yeah like how would it be
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different for the Innovative and experiencing it versus like do you know what I'm saying I do okay yeah
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and it doesn't matter okay okay
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[Laughter]
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it's a conflict no nor does the difference matter yeah
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that's a bit of a rabbit hole that the individual throws up because it wants to know what it's like
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and and the problem with that is this is what it's like
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but this isn't enough no it is in a way in a way in one sense
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you could say yes but another way absolutely not because there isn't the individual has
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the experience of being in a Continuum of experience and so it projects on
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what's being said here is that it's a better Continuum of experience but it's just no longer a Continuum of experience
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and that's meaningless to the individual yeah so the end of suffering isn't a
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continual experience but this is the absolute isn't the Continuum experience there's no one here isn't a continual
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experience it's just that there's no one nobody knows that
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no one knows this is the absolute unconditional life
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sure so if there's no intention there to show anyone anything why would you well there's no intention there either
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but even the intention is intentionless it has no no value whatsoever it's
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freedom of hearing as intentions
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like the the difference doesn't matter and all this stuff yeah yeah but there's just a responses yeah just what happens
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and I don't do it in the same way that that doesn't ask questions
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it still seems to me like there would need to be an intention in order for response to happen because so the
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solidity that we were talking about I didn't actually mention solidity but the objectification you could say it's a
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solidity a reality that there's a reality this the individual is a reality
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and the the room is a reality two different realities that is so that is
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the the individual seeing itself really so the individual sees itself as everything
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and so what that's doing is if there's an individual there it sees the individual here and because the
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individual has the experience of intention that everything only happens because I have intention and because I
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have free will and choice then that must be What's Happening Here it has no idea what it that this is already intentions
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even the experience of intention so it's one big projection
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it well it's not a projection it's an experience
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but you said something about on that end it was like through and
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everyone in it there's no objectification on that end well there's no one objectifying every everything
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is already that there's no one okay no
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the problem is that the individual can only imagine in its own experience totally yeah
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so everything that it's imagined is confined by its own limitations I just have to I'm not being pedantic but
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that's not really a problem the problem for the individual is that there isn't one [Laughter]
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it's all already that how do you fix that
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that is Jeff would you say to Any teacher about
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it teaches how the person who teaches to a person is still living yeah it seems it
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would seemed like it it wouldn't make any sense otherwise
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I mean it makes an assumption that there's there's a real individual with Free Will and choice and that
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foreign that is separate that which is longing
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for is somehow separate those are part of they would have to be part of the teacher including the experience for the
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teacher that they know something that they could tell you yeah yeah and all that's part of the illusion none of that's true
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I've heard some teachers talk about like creations of teachings like you know this person's not ready to hear this
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message right what do you have to say about that
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laughs that's the eloquent answer
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[Music] well that it has something to do with
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the individual that the individual there's a relationship between the experience of an individual or the
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intensity of the experienced individual and this being that already that there's a relationship and there
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isn't
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it's kind of all we're saying is there isn't a relationship it's all that already
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and there's no such thing as relationship if there's no individual right yeah
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foreign
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that kind of shocked me a bit because what you're saying is there's no
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intention for that to become anything it's just what it is it's not that this doesn't have any intention it's that
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this doesn't happen so the individual experiences is an
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illusion right because everything is already without intention
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in my experience that I have an internship without any intention so it's just nothing advising us the feeling
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that there's an interception yeah
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it's the intention itself is in presence of I believe yeah it does yeah
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foreign
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foreign
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er every individual is a Seeker every separate experience seeks
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did you seek out specific experiences in the past every individual seeks out specific
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experiences they can't do anything but everything that happens in that separate experience
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is part of seeking because the experience of separation is throughout the it's a need a sense of need that's
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actually cellular
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Falls away yeah
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well apparently because it doesn't really happen nothing really happens
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this doesn't become that because it's a separate experience fell Falls away
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and this was a very fast condition and this wasn't any past petition
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it wasn't the past condition that became this right yeah well it became that
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everything is that so there isn't any there isn't anything that isn't already that when I say that
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I'm talking about what can't be objectified we can't be known but what's wrong
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that's that's that that's
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Jim why do you think this message is only 30 years ago he's only 30 years old well
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I put a bit of a caveat in there and that's in the Purity that it's being
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expressed because really in the Bible and everywhere else you can find sort of
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hints or even direct statements of this it just is then there's some concessions
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made to the Seeker as well why do you think anybody no I mean you come up with a theory that
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um there wasn't anybody to hear it back then and so now there is and maybe people try
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people try to share this message back in the day but there's nobody who's ready to hear well you that wouldn't make
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sense actually because who would care this doesn't care if anyone hears this
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or not there's absolutely no investment at all if this is heard if anybody comes to the meetings or not doesn't make any
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difference no one here is that being no one here
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and 20 people here is that being 20 people here it's the same it's a little hard financially if nobody
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comes but but other than that
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so what was the reference to 30 years ago no there's a there's a man named
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Tony Parsons um who would you say was the father or
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grandfather of this radical or I like the word pure non-dualism
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and it's never been not in the way it's been talked about I just don't know about it that it's been taught in this
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sort of uncompromising um way without any any acknowledgment on
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any level of a separate individual that could find
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um this as that
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um
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uh it's something other than me not for me the meat doesn't long for this
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yes
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I wonder if uh maybe you could talk about the Scenic influence that individuality has
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on this because it is that but at the same time
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it seems to play a role in the actions yeah
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well I mean one thing you can see that's quite clear is how angry everybody is
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and that's a frustration of not being able to find what they want the whole world seems to be agitated
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more and more agitated more and more frustrated with the lack of being able
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to get enough satisfaction
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seems like all of the modern social structures want you to chase you back
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well it's the other way around really it's the the sense of something missing that creates the social structures
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that to encourage that try to fulfill what's being chased
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but then you're saying that is also that oh of course there's not like because you say that then it almost feels like
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therapy sense of like oh it'd be good if there wasn't so much pain no absolutely not absolutely not not only that but
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there isn't a world foreign
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is there an oscillation no some people will talk about it'll oscillate they'll
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say it's all this and then and then there's the me sort of they'll say comes back
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and they go back right well um what's obvious is that with the
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recognition by no point is that right that all there is is that
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the me would be that as well so where is the oscillation yeah I got it yeah that
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works yeah
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um
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oscillation um oh
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um I don't remember what was it well I said a couple of speakers
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um oh God yeah got it got it um the when this is recognized by no one
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that everything is that that which can't be known that includes me and anything I have to
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experience of separation or anything else so there wouldn't be any oscillation because everything is already there
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oscillation must be a personal experience
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but the sense of being someone doesn't come back there no well there never was anyone
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there's nothing to come back yeah but there's apparent side effects come out but it all is irrelevant
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but it would be impossible for those like you described in this outcroppings but like side effects are for me to come
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back for that body wouldn't it things like seeking it was never there see there's not a there's not a an end of me
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there's the end of the dream of something that never happened
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yeah but certain things have stopped haven't they maybe like seeking for example that hasn't happened since
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what you described as the recognize recognition by no one yeah
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yeah there's no mercy now I was just wondering if aspects
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about my experience could still arise there well there isn't to me there never wasn't me
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you're going to try to find a point that you can put a crowbar into and sort of wedge your way in and the thing is is
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that everything is already done and this isn't about the differences although there might be differences but no one
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would know what they are
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no one would know what they are so what you mean is whatever arises there it's not seen as part of anything right it
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just arise it's just that all right so no one's there to look at it and go on like because I will look at certain
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things well it's more than it's not that no one's there to look it's literally it doesn't matter
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the the individual is is it can't do anything else this isn't a judgment it's
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just what it does everything that happens it picks it up it can't differentiate it picks up everything and
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analyzes it looking for the answer looking for a better or worse or looking for knowing or looking for an experience
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looking for a realization everything thoughts feelings anything it's doing it all the time and that's the experience
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of knowing who I am or where I am and finding out what I need to find or making my life better and that that's
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just part of that separate experience that something is hidden and it needs to be found Yeah by me through my volition
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and so the idea is that if that weren't happening if that me fell away that
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there would be somebody who knew there wasn't all this stuff going on and there isn't
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it it's just not because it doesn't matter yeah one of the things I'm always doing
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might certainly arises well not everything but there's certain things that arise that I clearly think are part
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of the experience because then they were part of the new experience because oh yeah since those things were gone oh
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yeah me is trying to figure it out all the time it's trying to work it out
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yeah as though it mattered as though it's going to think its way or
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experience its way out of the separate experience know its way realize its way out of
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these separate experience yes trying to use thinking as a toolter yet oh yeah
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changes their perception changes their perception I mean other than everything having a Golden Glow